John Golden or Goulding – c1845-1910, Beekmantown, New York

Disclaimer: Determination that the haplotype shown below is correct is based upon a claimed descendant relationship by the person taking the DNA test. Desired: two or more matching test results from individuals that are not closely related.

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Haplotype: E / E-V12

— With additional YDNA tests, should be able to confirm membership within this DNA branch: E-V68>M78>Z1902>V12>CTS693>CTS4005>CTS3346>Y29594 [cluster B1]

—— CTS693 appears to have a European origin.
—— CTS4005>CTS3346>Y29594 appear to have a UK origin, primarily England and Scotland.

Other Matching YDNA Tests: None with GFolks … but significant matches with another family — see comments.

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John Golden (Goulding)

BIRTH 1842-1845 • New York … may be from Beekmantown, Clinton Co., area
DEATH 1910 • Beekmantown, Clinton, New York
— Listed in 1850 census as ‘Goulding’ but in almost all other documents as ‘Golden’.

Married to:

Margaret Thornton

BIRTH MAR 1846 • New York … may be from Beekmantown, Clinton Co., area
DEATH 1913 • Beekmantown, Clinton, New York

Children: confirmation of family membership needed

Confirmed children are bolded. All born in the Beekmantown, Clinton Co., New York area

All children named below regularly appear in Ancestry and other genealogies as children of John and Margaret Golden of Beekmantown, New York:

  • Sarah Golden, 1869–1880, died before 22 Jun 1880, date of census
  • Nellie Golden, 1873– not in 1880 census
  • Mary Ellen Golden, 1873–1954
  • Maggie A. Golden, 1876– not in 1880 census; see Richard of 1886 below.
  • Anna Golden, 1876–
  • Ed Golden, 1878– not in 1880 census
    — This is most likely misassociation. An Ed Golden born 1878 with parents of John and Margaret does exist but lives at 1900 Manhattan, New York, (1900 census). Has a brother named James — probably the same James as born in 1879 below, also listed in 1900 census. No Maggie of 1876 listed with Ed and James.
  • Rose Golden, 1878–1972
  • James Golden, 1879–  not in 1880 census — see Ed Golden above.
  • John Edward / Edmund Golden / Goulding, 1880–1972
    — not in 1880 census, so born after 22 Jun 1880. Genealogies indicate 22 Aug 1880.
  • Michael Golden, 1882–1923
  • Thomas Francis (Frank) Golden, 1885–1951
    — Some genealogies assign a birthdate of 1892 … this appears to be taken from another New York Thomas Golden.
  • Richard Golden, 1886–
    — There is a Richard with a mother named Mary or Margaret, and a sister named Maggie living at French Creek, Chautauqua, New York, per 1900 census. See Maggie of 1876 above.
  • Margaret Golden, 1886–1910 or after.
    — 1890 census lost and may have died just before 1910 census. May not be a family member. No records indicating such, other than Ancestry genealogies.
  • Paul Golden, 1888– … — 1890 census lost and not in 1900 or 1910 census.
  • Grace Loretta Golden, 1889–1976

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COMMENTS:

Per several census questions of ‘parents born in __‘ the answer for both John Golden and Margaret Thornton is consistently: Ireland.

Assuming that the 1850 census represents this family, then John’s father was named James Goulding and his mother was Sally. John would also have an older sister named Harriet (1838) and a brother Michael (1840), both born in New York. There are two older brothers, Daniel (1834) and Patrick (1836), born in Ireland.

— There is no known later interaction among these 1850 Beekmantown, NY siblings so difficult to positively say that this is the right family. However, Beekmantown / Plattsburg, NY of the era was a very rural outlying area in upper New York.

— Daniel, Patrick and Michael Golden appear in the 1860 census for Beekmantown, NY living with mother ‘Sarah’ (Sally). John, the youngest child (age 15-18) is not listed in the census.

There is a James Goulding 1808-1879 and a Sally Toby 1810-1900 listed in some genealogies as being John Golden/Goulding’s parents. It would appear that John’s father James Goulding died prior to 1860 … so while perhaps a kin it is not likely to that Goulding/Toby are his parents.

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Close significant YDNA matches: while there are none with other GFolks, there is with three members of the Harwood family of England and USA. The match is close enough that the Ireland/New York Gouldings have probably shared a UK grandfather with the England/American South (NC, TN, VA) Harwoods since 1600. The American Harwoods left the UK approximately 150 years prior to the Goulding immigration, settling first in Stafford, VA (bef 1680), then migrating by 1760s to Edgecombe, NC and then on to Rhea County, Tennessee within a generation.

YDNA Haplotype E-V12 is most closely associated with southern Egypt: 75% of the male population … although there is a hotspot of E-V12 in Europe’s French Basque country and Eastern Anatolia (e.g. Erzurum Turks) …  and several in Russia. 

!! More is possible to be learned through higher-level SNP testing.

So … a wild and crazy theory: This family arrived in the UK either as Roman Legionnaires or at the end of The Third Crusade. … Makes for a good story, even a plausible one … Although I can find no history of Roman Legions coming from Egypt to England, Egypt was a Roman territory known as Aegyptus from 30AD through the 4th century. Aegyptus would have been expected to contribute troops to the empire as they were formally Roman citizens. This would also be the same period that Rome ruled England (43-410 AD).

>> E-L117 is very closely associated with Roman Dacia, modern Rumania, and the Roman Legions that served in very late Roman rule of England. They are known to have chosen NOT to return to their homelands. 

As for E-V12 coming to England as a member of returning members of The Crusades, it would have been mostly likely The Third Crusade from 1189 – 1192 AD. This was a disasterous crusade led by England’s King Richard I the Lionhearted and did involve the invasion of Egypt in partnership with a Fatimid ally vying for control of Egypt. The Fatimid-Crusader Army was lured into the south of Egypt where fighting ended in a stalemate. A treaty gave something to everyone, with the condition that the Crusader Army withdraw. 

Return of Crusader forces to EnglandRemember the childhood story of Robin Hood and his Moorish friend? Robin Hood is mostly legend with no historical documentation, and his Moorish or Saracen friend is a fairly modern literary invention. Both Moor and Saracen are meant to indicate an Arab Muslim … the point being that English Crusaders did have allies in the region and some of those allies may have returned to England with the withdrawal of crusaders. >>> Just a wild and crazy brainstorming as to how E-V12 came to live in the English Isles.

The E Haplotype Projecthttps://www.familytreedna.com/public/E3b?iframe=yresults

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Got Info? Bill Golden, Norfolk1956@gmail.com 

GoldenGenealogy.com