2015.12.20 NOTE TO READERS:
Writing this has caused me to examine many more of my notes and that of various YDNA researchers. I anticipate numerous changes in this discussion during 2016. As I update this page I will note the date of update.
One of the immediate updates is that my Golden line is U106/Z307, which is downstream from R-P310 which I identified as in my original posting. Central to that is a positive test for the SNPs Z156 and Z381, both are downstream from P310 and upstream of Z307.
What this upstream/downstream means is that we are a descendant branch of the R-P310 tree, a branch that is parallel to the Falch’s P312 branch.
FamilyTreeDNA estimates that our U106 branch came into its own about 2,600 BCE or about 4,600 years ago. Our Z156 SNP appeared about 2,300 BCE.
So if the Falch family is the closest tested relative family known to exist outside of the USA, and at least 4,600 years separates our two lines: does that mean that our own family once lived in relative seclusion and when we came to the USA that our entire modern gene pool came with us? In essence, our whole existing immediate family came over at that time?
The answer will probably visit us in the future as more folks take DNA tests.
Best regards,
Bill Golden
2015.12.20
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There are two families with which our Golden line has a distant probable pre-modern history YDNA connection: the Hans Falch (Falk/Falck) family of Bergen, Norway and the Keeling family (which matches on 32 of 37 markers).
I do not have access to the Keeling YDNA test results. YDNA for the Hans Falch line has been publicly published so I am able to make comparisons.
Below is a comparison of YDNA from two descendants of Hans Falch (abt 1680-aft 1729) and William Golden (abt 1750-c1808).
The Falch family of Bergen, Norway, tracks back to Hans Falch, probably born about 1680. His death date is listed as ‘after 1729’ because that is when his last child was born. See the Falk/Falck/Falch DNA Project page, Line #3, for more info.
Han’s wife’s name is unknown; there were five children (4 male and 1 female): Mons Hanssen (1717-??), Johannes Hansson (1718-??), Ole Hansson (1729-??), Ingeborg Hansdatter (??-??), and Abraham Hansson (??-??).
From my own Golden line, the William and Nelly Golden family may have originated in Virginia and moved to Edgefield, South Carolina about 1780/1. There were at least three sons and two daughters: Nathaniel Green (1783-1846), Isaac (1785-1860), Abraham (1791-1870), Margaret Frances (1784-1875), and a second daughter, name unknown (aft 1792). A possible fourth son is Thomas (1780-1830).
There is a one marker difference in each of the 12 and 25 marker sets. FamilyTreeDNA estimates our familial relationship exists at some point greater than 20-24 generations (98%) — this would be before 1400 AD/CE.
Since there are significant changes in the 37 and 67 DNA marker sets then our genetic tree branching happened much further in the past, probably before 800 AD/CE.
A key distinction between our lines: Goldens are R-P310 and the Falchs are R-P312, with P312 being a branch of P310.
When our lines split exactly has not been determined — however, there is a well-documented Irish line reaching back to before 1100 that identifies as R-P312. The R-P310 line came into existence at least 3,000 years ago — so our Falch/Golden connection is well before 1100 AD/CD and within the last 1-3,000 years.
A very important marker is DYS390. A value of ’24’ is considered the standard for identification with the Atlantic Modal Haplotype (northwest Europe and the English/Irish/Scottish isles). The Falches are ’24’. Our Goldens are ’25’ — a DYS390 value of 25 is relatively rare among the historically Germanic/Teutonic tribes that came to settle western Europe after the last ice age (about 7,000 years ago).
There are various meanings that can be read into the DYS390 = 24 or 25 discussion. One view is that our genetic line kept to the northernmost European coastal areas (Baltic Sea/North Sea) as a homogeneous population until some time within the last millenia (we didn’t go out so much, wander away and play with others UNTIL settlement of the English Isles began). There is no evidence of our family’s migration before 1780 so this remains an open question.
Our R-P312 cousins would become Celts and form many of the Germanic tribes. Our DYS390=25 (R-P310) branch, with the markers of DYS393=13 and DYS19=14, has as its highest density population center point : Oslo, Norway area.
| DYS 393 |
DYS 390 |
DYS 19 |
DYS 391 |
DYS 385 |
DYS 426 |
DYS 388 |
||||
| 60581 | Falch | Norway | R-P312 | 13 | 24 | 14 | 11 | 12-14 | 12 | 12 |
| 289065 | Golden | USA | R-P310 | 13 | 25 | 14 | 11 | 12-14 | 12 | 12 |
| 12 Marker Set | ||||||||||
| DYS 439 |
DYS 389i |
DYS 392 |
DYS 389ii |
DYS 458 |
DYS 459 |
DYS 455 |
DYS 454 |
DYS 447 |
DYS 437 |
DYS 448 |
DYS 449 |
| 11 | 13 | 13 | 29 | 17 | 9-10 | 11 | 11 | 25 | 15 | 19 | 29 |
| 11 | 13 | 13 | 29 | 17 | 9-10 | 11 | 11 | 25 | 15 | 19 | 28 |
| 12 Markers | 25 Marker Set | ||||||||||
| DYS 464 |
DYS 460 |
Y-GATA H4 |
YCAii | DYS 456 |
DYS 607 |
DYS 576 |
DYS 570 |
CDY | DYS 442 |
| 15-15-16-17 | 11 | 11 | 19-19 | 16 | 16 | 20 | 17 | 37-37 | 11 |
| 15-15-16-17 | 11 | 10 | 19-23 | 17 | 15 | 18 | 17 | 36-36 | 12 |
| 25 Markers | 37 Marker Set | ||||||||
| DYS 438 |
DYS 531 |
DYS 578 |
DYF 395S1 |
DYS 590 |
DYS 537 |
DYS 641 |
DYS 472 |
DYF 406S1 |
DYS 511 |
DYS 425 |
DYS 413 |
DYS 557 |
| 12 | 11 | 9 | 15-16 | 8 | 10 | 10 | 8 | 11 | 10 | 12 | 23-23 | 16 |
| 12 | 11 | 9 | 16-16 | 8 | 10 | 10 | 8 | 10 | 10 | 12 | 23-23 | 15 |
| 67 Marker Set | ||||||||||||
| DYS 557 |
DYS 594 |
DYS 436 |
DYS 490 |
DYS 534 |
DYS 450 |
DYS 444 |
DYS 481 |
DYS 520 |
DYS 446 |
| 16 | 10 | 12 | 12 | 18 | 8 | 12 | 22 | 20 | 16 |
| 15 | 10 | 12 | 12 | 14 | 8 | 12 | 21 | 20 | 13 |
| 67 Markers | |||||||||
| DYS 617 |
DYS 568 |
DYS 572 |
DYS 640 |
DYS 492 |
DYS 565 |
DYS 710 |
| 11 | 11 | 13 | 11 | 12 | 12 | 12 |
| 12 | 11 | 13 | 11 | 11 | 13 | 12 |
| 67 Markers | ||||||